A bad throttle position sensor is the last thing that you will ever wish to have on your ride. The purpose of a throttle position sensor is to keep your car working by controlling the throttle. With the passage of time, the sensor loses its efficiency and thus has to be replaced. The important question is how to identify the throttle position sensor symptoms so that you end up replacing the. If i keep it in 1st throughout this range of mph it is extremely jerky and just randomly shakes or 'pushes me' and i have no idea how to combat it. I could hit the throttle and get no response, or hit the throttle and get a nice boost.
AugsburgM5 said:I bought a 2003 M5 with 80K about 9 months ago, while I love the car, I dislike the very sensitive jerky throttle response in first and second gear, the dealer says it is normal, any advise?First off, do not use sport mode if you're having issues with the throttle. Sport just stiffens up the steering a bit, and it makes the pedal-to-throttle sensitivity go way up - the throttles open up quicker per increment of pedal travel.I've not had any issue with the M5 as you state, but I've owned my car for many years now. Compared to my other cars, I'd just say that you do have to be smooth the throttle as the S62 engine makes huge torque, even at low rpm, so if you are cranking open the throttle too quickly, it's going to respond strongly.Practice smoothness, leave sport mode off (it does nothing for performance), and see if you can adapt.If that doesn't work, make sure there are no OBDII codes stored. It's remotely possible that there is an issue with the throttle actuator or the 8 throttle bodies aren't properly sync'd, etc.ChuckP.S. Check out the E39 section of for everything about the E39 M5.
Ok, so today is when i first noticed this issue, Eric.I was on my way home from eating out, and driving about 35-40MPH. It's been around 29F in the AM and highs of 45-60F depending on the day. At this time it was 48F according to the cars temp. The car currently has 105,592 miles on it and we have had it since 2008. Since we've bought it, there has been routinely oil changes, but I can't say so much for the transmission.
The car had, I think, about 75-85 thousand on it when we bought it, and ran and drove great, being a Honda!Anyway, I was driving normally, (haven't been bashing it or anything, hardly ever do) when I noticed a judder around 2,000-2,500RPMs. What had happened was I got in the car, drove out of the parking lot and down the street to a stop light. Nothing abnormal when I cranked the car or anything, or while driving. I didn't notice any sounds or jerkyness while slowing down to the light. Before I got to the light it turned green so I went back to accelerate from about 25MPH.
Again, not getting down on it or anything (city driving). When I done this, the transmission responded fine (revs went up a few hundred as the gear dropped, or the grade logic control/ eco shift re-engaged the gear mesh and the speed increased as normal, ect). Only thing abnormal, and for the first time feeling or noticing it was around 2,300-2,500 RPMs after I gained about 10 MPH from the 25MPH I was excelling from, the car shuddered. Back and forth for a few seconds. It was harsh enough for me to realize it and let off the gas slightly and it didn't go away so I pressed back on to it, thinking it was just the road since letting off the gas didn't stop it or kill the car.
The RPMs didn't jump or anything and there is no CEL's flashing 'D' lights, Temp warning ect.The shudder didn't happen at all at the next stop. Not while slowing down to the light of hitting the gas to leave it. Everything was smooth as can be. At this point I was thinking it was just that part of the road. So anyway, I get down closer to my street and slow down from about 45MPH to turn left onto another.
Everything was still really smooth. There is a stop sign at a intersection right before my street, and this is where it happened again, but only backwards form the first time.When i was slowing down, the car shuddered again, but not as bad or as long as it did before on 'that road'. This is where I got a little more alarmed.
I went to accelerate again and all was fine. There is no sign of slipping or under powered performance so I just assumed I was paying way to much attention to the roads and how the brakes are grabbing.Well, I pull into my drive way, and its a slight incline. As normal, slowing down and then turning into it was normal, but when slight;y pressing the gas pedal, the shudder happened again! And this time only around 8MPH!So that's my story. Its kinda scaring me cause our car is far out of its warranty and I heard about the TL 5AT's being anywhere from $2,500-$4,000 depending if its a rebuild or full replacement! 'Ain't Nobody got money fo dat!'
Trust me, I love my car, and I know its kinda old and maybe wasn't the first to come off the line problem free, being its one of the earlier 1st generation, 2004's. My driving isn't harsh, neither was my moms (she drove it from 08 to mid 2012 where I started to drive it more -License!!) so I'm assuming its from the normal wear and tear with out changing the fluids, plus what ever driving the original 04-08 owners done.I have looked else were about this issue, and the only things similar are in the 2009+MDX and ZDX's with their transmissions which was resolved by a ECU update and new Honda fluids. There is also the Acura TL, mainly second and a hand full of 3rd gens. Everwhere i look people say the 5AT in the TSX was bullet proof.Just more info on how we drive ect:-When we, (Me, step dad and mom) reverse out of the driveway, we don't exactly stop completely before switching from reverse to drive. My step dad is the worst, switching from R to D around 5MPH, letting off the brake and hitting the gas about the same time. Mom, she's more like me, about 2-3MPH.
I assume this isnt as bad as doing it around 10MPH like some people think its ok to do, but I also don't think its anything good either, now that we are getting symptoms. The worst that I've ever witnessed from my step dad was when reversing up a steep hill. When he put it into R from P and let of the brake there was a big jerk but that was on a hill.
Steep on at that, about a year ago. Problems didn't start till tonight.-We don't use the SportShift often, or dog the car out. ( I have once on the interstate passing a 55'er in the were everyone is doing 80MPH. Car done it greatly!-The car has been in one accident, not by us. It was a fender bender and wasn't totaled. Everything cosmetically was repaired, frame wasn't bent at all ect.-We don't drive too-too often.
Only put about 20-25,000 miles on the car since 2008!-Car has given us no other problems since ownership other than the center stack interior lights (Radio, HVAC, clock, gear select and rear dome lights went out in 2011).- We haven't EVER done a 0-60MPH run.So Eric, whats your opinion on this? I've read that doing a 3x3 flush or just anytype of flush ruined the transmission days after it was done in the TSX, but the types of fluids weren't specified. I know Honda's are VERY picky with their fluids, and I plan to use the Z1(?) or that new fluid Honda just came out with if the problem gets worse and I decide to get it checked.The thought of the TSX being disabled makes me sick!Thanks for reading. I hope you have a great solution or suggestion as always!-Dillon. (Dillon1791/ Youtube channel). There is a lube guard shudder additive you can buy along with a friction modifier.
Drain the fluid (drain plug facing the drivers side wheel) and refill with Honda transmission fluid ONLY. Put in additives first. Should be 3 quarts of oil, get 4 to be safe. Fill plug is on top of trans (17mm) unless the fill tube is big enough for a funnel. My dad owns a transmission shop and this trick works very well with Hondas/Acuras coming in with the same problem. I would attempt this first, if this doesnt work you may have some internal damage to the friction material on the clutches.Shudder additive:Friction Modifier:Please or to join the conversation. That transmission isn't known for issues.
Normally I find that it's improper service that gets them to that point. It's possible the previous owner didn't maintain it like it should have been. As you pointed out you need to make sure you use only Honda fluid in that transmission. It's also important to check the fluid level with the engine OFF not running. I've seen countless overfilled transmissions because of this issue. That said, I think the best you can do is change the fluid as suggested.
If the problem continues you may need to replace it. The upside would be that since the transmission isn't known for problems you could probably go with a low mileage salvage unit.Before you go there you should also check for transmission codes and deal with those first. It could also be an electrical issue causing the problem.
Sorry for not keeping you guys updated on this. Since then the car as been fine. I spoke with my parents about the issue and asked them If they have ever felt it or had the transmission fluids changed and they said that they haven't really noticed it but have had the fluid checked every time they have taken in for the routinely oil change. So far everything has checked out O.K both dealer and mechanically.I have to say. I'm very relived. I test drove it some today, and sure enough everything was fine. It was cold too and after it warmed up everything was still fine.
I did some spirited driving in TripTronic mode and still no issues. Transmission let me choose my gear as I wished with out hurting anything and even let me keep it at 6,800-7,000RPM's while going through a 'S' slalom in 2nd and 1st gear. I tried letting it bounce off the rev limiter at 7,100 and it allowed me to but only in gears 2nd-5th. (didn't have enough road for 4-5th gears, too long!) The only thing I still feel is a big launch from 1st to 2nd gear, like if you floored the car right when it switches. Its a smooth change but its also sudden. Like my grandmothers 1992 Honda Accord's 4AT. I like like the 'Jump'.
I read where thats normal for most Honda transmissions while looking into the TSX AT.I done the spirited driving not to give the transmission a work out but to dog the engine some. We don't do it usually and I'm a firm believer that in Honda's nature its a must do every other week.
Haha.Anyway, since it wasn't the transmission causing the judder, I'm moving on to ignition/ fuel and maybe even looking for vacuum leaks. Anything to cause the car to surge some with light throttle in put.Note: The car performed VERY well for a 9 year old car which has not had its full 100,000 miles refresh. Eric, you said that Honda AT isn't known for many issues? There is only 1 or 2 video's I found on YouTube with the TSX having issues with the AT, and both of them were still functioning well. One was just making a noise while in P and N.
(In put bearing maybe?) and the other was still moving the car around in the shop while doing burnouts!Thanks everyone for the suggestions. If the problem reoccurs I'll let you guys know and try to get it on tape.
New problem.But first lets do an update.Since my last post, the car has gotten its. together and ran fine. No judder or anything. The Radio and HVAC lights even came back on now that the weather has gotten nice. So that's great!But not so more.I just got back from a quick run 2 blocks from my house to get my mom some mothers day gifts, and during my commute, I noticed nothing extremely unusual until I got into the parking lot.
One thing I did notice upon enitial start up was a rough start (you could feel the car shake back and forth) with a slightly rough idle around 1,000RPMs. The Idle to me is normal, the car has always idled that way on a normal, 80 degree day like it is now. The start up was kinda rough but I let it roll off my shoulder as the car sat for a few days longer than normal. Now when i said rough start, I meant the 'normal' Kseries start up, but with a slower rev to idle. The winters were about the same, slightly slower and higher (Around 1,800 cold) but they always drop after 7-10 minutes to around 900-800RPM's. I believe the K24A2's idle speed is 798 RPM's. Its on the underside of the hood but I haven't checked.
1,100-700 is normal for me.Anyway. I put the car in reverse and there's that typical Honda feel. Kinda normal but more noticeable today.
Again, paid no attention to it but was aware.So I get to the store and go to pull into the parking lot but I have to stop and wait for a van to pull out. As I do so, the car kinda jerks some.
Not violently but its kinda like its tugging against the breaks, and I say that unwillingly cause that's exactly what i don't want. A torque converter lock-up. So this is were I'm a little upset. The cars temp gauge isn't near the 'C', I've driven for a bit now and noticed no slippage, and there are no lights on the dash.So I pull into the parking lot, and let off the gas completely (as I always do,m the car USUALLY continues to drive itself around some that way) but this is a different case. The car's idle drops WITH the speed to 500-400 RPM's fluctuating in jumps from 4-5 to 6 RPM's on its own. Its very noticeable (it caused me to look down at the Tach) and you could feel the rumble in the seats.
Its like a jerking feel. I still haven't touched the gas but I have to cause I had stopped by then. When i pressed on the gas, the idle jumped to 1,100RPM's and the car pulled into the spot fine. I held my foot on the brake for a moment before putting it in park and watched the idle. It held around 900 for a moment, then dropped to 600, then dropped to 400 and that's when I threw it in Neutral to prevent a stall.This is when I point it out to my step dad beside me. I told him 'Look at this' and he leans over and looks and says 'what' and I say 'You see this Idle, its rough, and not normal.
Don't you feel it' He looks at it for a moment and says ' Yeah I do. But somewhere around 500 is normal'. I argue back how its more like 800RPM's and he realizes and corrects himself. I put the car in neutral and the Idle is normal.
I turn the radio down and turn off the AC and give it a second, then put it in park. The car's idle starts to shudder back down to 400 but not as bad as when I put it in drive and hold the brake. When I did put it in drive the RPM's feel quickly to 300! But before I could go into neutral they shot back up to 700 and kinda slid between there and 600. I've had enough and think back to Eric's Idle control air valve. Maybe its getting clogged. So i put the car into neutral and Rev it a few times.
Let it bounce the 4,500 limiter for a moment and let it idle. It seemed to love it.
No lag, no bad noises, sounded good.I try Park again. Idle drops and car starts to shudder.:/ Same in Drive.I put the car back in park, turn it off, start it again, same thing. Finally I just go into the store, get what I needed, then come back out. Same start up as the previous ones.
Same RPM fluctuation while coasting out of the parking lot.I get home and park the car, sit in it for a second doing nothing but looking at the jump RPM's and feeling the car massage my back with its idle, then i shut it off, and come in to type this.The car has 107,569 miles on it.With in the past month I have done a thing called 'Blowing out the cobwebs'. Its where you cruise for a while and then pretty much dog the car. Basically a workout for the transmission really, and get the engine breathing faster. Didn't do any 0-60's that could hurt the transmission, just more of a 20-90MPH run followed by 60-80 MPH 'simulated passing's' as you would do to go around someone on the highway.
Car seemed fine. Shifted quickly. Moved from 60 to 80 in just seconds. Couldn't complain.I find it odd and very scary that the idle is now doing this. Its the first time it's happened, and its been a while since the transmission had that judder I last posted about.
It's been about 4 weeks since I've 'Dogged the car out' so i feel like if that would have caused a problem it would have been more soon after than this.My step dad did agree that the car probably needs a tune up. Still, we haven't done that 100K miles tune so I think the car is begging for it now. At least the Tranny.It worries me, cause the Tranny can be expensive and time consuming. My mom probably wouldn't want to have it fixed if it calls for a new one or even a rebuild as that's major coin.I really hope I can find out what the deal is here. I'm hoping for the problem to just be bad spark plugs, but all the symptoms kinda point to the transmission. Besides, Eric's 04 Element's 100K Tune showed that his plugs in his K24 were PERFECT. So I actually think they can be ruled out, but who knows.If anyone has any suggestions or knows of this happening to anyone or if you just have guesses please let me know.I'm thinking about making a video, but God only knows what I would do if the only time I go out there to make a video to help diagnose the car and have it stall and not be able to restart due to a failing Torque converter locking up, having to have his own MOTHERS car towed on her MOTHERS day.
So stressful. She also does not know of THIS problem yet. Stepdad and I are going to tell her after mothers day so she doesn't get stressed out like us. Problem seems to be a vacuum leak upon further investigationThe rough idle is most noticeable in Drive and reverse while holding the break which leads me to conclude its a vacuum leak and not a bad Coil. Kinda glad I haven't bought anything yet.
Power seems to be a little on the lower end and throttle response is number than usual.Does anybody no of a common place for the vacuum leak on the TSX/ Accords with K24's? How to find it?And if this issue goes un-fixed, is there any serious damages to be done?
I know fuel economy will suffer. Just asking cause it may take me some time to find out where the leak is.Thanks!